Motor-Assisted Bicycle Adventures. anyone?

Re: Motor-Assisted Bicycle Adventures. anyone?

Postby augidog [OP] » July 31st 2020, 2:30am

97cargocrawler wrote:All I been doing the past 4 months is building an ebike in my shop. Took a $300 Mongoose Dolomite (rode it around the block once) and started to mod it. $6K later and it's still not done. It's too embarrassing to show at the moment. It's more like a vintage electric motorcycle with manual override. :oops: It's the only thing keeping me from completely losing my ****.
my signature on my old MaB forum was..."The bike saved my life by giving me one."

you could share the tech specs of what you're working with if you want 8-)
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Re: Motor-Assisted Bicycle Adventures. anyone?

Postby sixsixsixsix is online! » July 31st 2020, 3:53am

What a great thread and some enlightening Posts...
Whoda' thunk - CC with a bike.

We have come and gone so far...
Well, after all... what would Banacek say ?... “AOC - her astonishing matryoshka-like ignorance, like the rest of The Squad is surpassed only by the relentless idiocy of the democrats, antifa & it’s attendant mass media, mayors & governors.”


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Re: Motor-Assisted Bicycle Adventures. anyone?

Postby augidog [OP] » July 31st 2020, 3:17pm

sixsix wrote:We have come and gone so far...

The Merit of Wyman's Performance
By A. NICHOLS JERVIS

630.2 Regas Bicycle Rochester RON.PNG
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The following article appeared in The Motorcycle Magazine in November, 1903
TMM 11/03 digitized original: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bzo_1W ... 8waGs/view
It is doubtful if even those motorcyclists who have followed the story of George A. Wyman's trip across the continent, form San Francisco to New York, which was concluded in the Motorcycle Magazine last month, appreciate fully how exceptionally excellent a performance it was. Now that the narrative has been completed and a review of the whole trip can be taken, it stands out in its entirety as a supreme triumph for the motor bicycle. It was not only the most notable long distance record by a motorcycle, but also it was the greatest long trip made in this country by any sort of a motor vehicle. This is a fact to which attention was not called by Wyman in his story and it is one that should be emphasized. In fact, Wyman's story was altogether too modest throughout.

No motor vehicle, other than Wyman's motor bicycle, has made the trip across the American continent within 50 days. Several automobiles, large and small, carrying a couple of men, have made the trip across the continent since Wyman showed the way, but none has done it in so short a time as he did, so that he has the credit not only of being the first to bring a motor vehicle across the continent, but also for holding the best record time for the performance.

In calculating Wyman's time as 50 days the time was taken from the day he left San Francisco until that on which he reached New York, and in this injustice was done, because Wyman left San Francisco late in the afternoon on May 16, and simply crossed the bay to Vallejo, where he stayed the night. He arrived in New York City early in the afternoon on July 6, and so his total time, counting the morning of May 17, when he left Vallejo, was only 49 days, and even then no allowance is made for nearly half a d on July 6 that he was in New York City. This is, of course, the total elapsed time. The time lost by Wyman when he was not riding sums up to 11 days, making his net riding time 38 days, and there were circumstances particularly extenuating about his loss of time. The records of the automobilists(sic) who have since made the trip from ocean to ocean are not only poorer than those of Wyman, but are much poorer. Dr. H.N. Jackson, who was the first to make the trip in an automobile, was 63 days in doing it. He left San Francisco on May 23 and arrive in New York July 25. He had a car of 20 horsepower. E.T. Fetch, with a 12-horsepower automobile took 61 day for the trip, leaving San Francisco June 20 and reaching New York August 21. L.L. Whitman, the third and, up to date, the last to perform the journey, required 73 days with a runabout of five-horsepower.

Wyman had a bicycle weighing only 90 pounds with a motor on it of 1-1/4 rated horsepower. When he lost time by laying-to during a storm it was more excusable than in the case of men with a motor many times more powerful on a car built high enough to chary the rider through ordinarily small floods dryshod(sic), and strong enough to resist the wrenching caused by the corduroy roads of the West. Another feature of Wyman's feat that adds greatly to the credit of it is that he was alone. Through all the dreary deserts and mountain fastnesses, he had no companion to cheer and encourage him; no one to join in the laugh and jest that reduces the apparent magnitude of the obstacles; no one to help him pull his machine out of the mud, or lift it over boulders. Moreover, he had no shelter from the sun and rain and wind, as had all the others, in the form of big umbrellas, and he could not wear a long rubber coat as could those who rode in the automobiles. He had no one to help him make a repair or an adjustment. When his ears were frozen, as the were one morning in May, he could not turn over the operation of his bicycle to a companion and give attention to himself. He had to dismount, and as his vehicle was one that would not stand alone, and there was not a post of building near against which to lean it, he had to carefully shut off his motor, find a suitable place, and carefully lay it down. He was alone, utterly, drearily alone, with the solitude of the deserts and the mountains and all the strenuousness of his undertaking constantly confronting him.

While the automobiles had some advantage in being better able to withstand the racking strain of rough roads because of greater weight, and better able to push through sandy and muddy stretches because of higher horsepower, the advantages of the motorcycle over the four-wheelers were many and manifest. Being a single-tracking vehicle, it had a wider range of variation in picking the best part of the roads, or trails, and could often find fair going at the edge of a muddy highway, where the four-wheelers had no choice, but to force the wheels, on one side at least, through the heavy going. Again, it was possible for Wyman to lift his vehicle bodily from the ground and also to take to the railroad and ride between the ties or over then, which he did for about half the distance travelled. His greatest delay was that of five days, when he waited at Chicago for a motor crankshaft to be received from San Francisco. This should not have happened, for there was an agency for the motor bicycle Wyman was using in Chicago, and he reasonably expected to be able to get any part he wanted there.

The contrast between the trip of the motor bicycle and those made by the automobiles stands out sharply when it is remembered what expedients were frequently resorted to by the operators of the four-wheeled cars. One carried a block and tackle and resorted to its use repeatedly. The drivers put on big canvas flaps over the tires, or laid canvas strips for the wheels by hand over the desert sand in order to make headway in the desert. Time and time again they were obliged to call upon men with horses to help them out of the mud or sand holes. One of them was followed halfway across the continent by a factory expert, who used the railroad trains to go from town to town and thus remain within call when help or repairs were required. Wyman had help only once during his whole trip, that time being when he was mired near Laramie. The adaptability to circumstances of the man with a motor bicycle was shown when Wyman, driven from the tracks of one railroad a hundred feet to one side and "toted" his bicycle. At another time, when driven from the tracks, he walked through a big grain field a mile or two to the highway. Such things were impossible for the four-wheelers.

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Re: Motor-Assisted Bicycle Adventures. anyone?

Postby 97cargocrawler » August 2nd 2020, 5:23am

Ok, this is wayyyyy embarassing because this bike is far from completion and some of the stuff on it might get swapped out before it's complete. Even once it's complete it will get a full tear down for a nice flat black paint job.

The quick spec's are:

Mongoose Dolomite - frame and chain only
Two 48v 20Ah Lipo batts in parallel with homebrew combiner circuit (batts inside ammo cans, inside panniers)
Front 1200W 48v hub motor
Rear 1200W 48v hub motor
Customized torque brackets
Two 40A Ebikeling controllers combined (hope to trash that ASAP for something better)
Origin8 SuperCell tires 29" o.d.
Full homebrew motorbike electrical (headlamp, signals, running lights, tail lamps and horn) Customized super bright LED inside all fixtures
SHIMANO XT BL-M8020 4 Piston Disc Brakes front and rear
SHIMANO XT SM-RT86 Rotor - 6-Bolt, 203mm front
SHIMANO XT SM-RT86 Rotor - 6-Bolt, 180mm rear
FSA The Pig headset
Triple tree fork
Suntour XCT Crankset
Lowrider 169 Free Style Handlebar
Front and rear fenders
Motorbike fairing
Custom electrical display
Bluetooth 16m color RGB strobes (not pictured)
Cloud9 seat
Nikola Tesla tribute license plate
Left and right retractable Gatling guns (not pictured)

tons more stuff.

Here is the original $300 bike that I rode around the block one time. I heard people make this into an ebike..I thought Hmmmmm..

20190921_194316.jpg


How it sits 4 months into the build:

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Pix should right themselves up..I Hope.

I know this bike is super poser status compared to pro build ebikes. I will eventually swap out some of the low end crap but for now I will settle for 20mph. Hope you like the pix. This is what I do when I'm without a job and stuck at home, thanks COVID-19 (**** you). :violin:

Almost forgot...has a two-way alarm. Nobody gonna steal it.
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Re: Motor-Assisted Bicycle Adventures. anyone?

Postby augidog [OP] » August 2nd 2020, 6:14am

holy carp! I'd be embarrassed too. you know I'm kidding, right? dang, dude, that has to be quite torque-y off the line, and 20-25mph always works for me. really nice. listen, when it's built right for it's power and speed, there's nothing poser about it

edit: I followed this post with some Sondors "professional" EaB's for comparison. there IS no comparison, imho.

we are SO on the same page about how to armor a regular bicycle for motorizing. and lighting too. I have always sported a 12v "vehicle grade" set of lights, no bicycle blinky stuff but a fog lamp or headlight fairing, and a moped taillight. in my gas bike days I carried a 20Ah SLA and 2A charger. extra weight but safety is job one. during my 2-year long ride, 2010-2012, I could safely handle 20mph on a pitch black night, plus I run full time lights during the day as well.
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Re: Motor-Assisted Bicycle Adventures. anyone?

Postby augidog [OP] » August 2nd 2020, 6:55am

my friend in Juneau bought into Sondors when they first launched. i flew up a few years ago and we had us a nice ride up to Mendenhall Glacier. these are 36V 350W and just right for casual trail. pedelec with throttle-override.
IMG_20151108_130112.jpg

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IMG_20151108_134121.jpg

IMG_20151108_140126.jpg

IMG_20151108_141418_panorama.jpg


his Worksman Trike with 48V 1200W front wheel. note the dual "amped bikes" torque arms. kinda dangerous, this one.
IMG_20151108_130032.jpg


this is his Peugeot with an Extra-Cycle extension, and 47cc belt-drive, a nice all-day road runner.
IMG_20151108_150518.jpg
the Tanaka 2-stroke weighs hardly anything, you never even notice it back there.
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Re: Motor-Assisted Bicycle Adventures. anyone?

Postby Leeann_93 » August 2nd 2020, 2:27pm

I wanna see pics of the Gatling guns.
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Re: Motor-Assisted Bicycle Adventures. anyone?

Postby augidog [OP] » August 2nd 2020, 3:25pm

Leeann_93 wrote:I wanna see pics of the Gatling guns.
of course you do. I was wondering who'd be first on that one. my money was on sixsix.

'crawler, EaB controllers with "regen" or brake-override use a switch integrated into the levers. if you're not using this optional connection, which I think you're not, I don't either, the "normally open" switches (wired parallel) are perfect for a LED brake-light circuit.
IMG_20200802_070245.jpg
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when you first got started, were you already a bicycle enthusiast, or did you jump in with both feet and learn on the fly?

have you discovered electricscooterparts dot com? tons of parts by category and specs. an upstanding company with excellent support. they provide a pop-up schematic for almost every item.
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Re: Motor-Assisted Bicycle Adventures. anyone?

Postby 97cargocrawler » August 2nd 2020, 11:48pm

augidog wrote:when you first got started, were you already a bicycle enthusiast, or did you jump in with both feet and learn on the fly?


I'm a complete noob when it comes to modifying or adjusting bikes. I just learned the terms bottom bracket, headset, cassette, lacing etc. Of course I had many bikes as a kid but I never really got the hang of shifting gears on multispeed bikes. Never having owned a decent bicycle was part of the issue. I realize now that shifters, cassettes and derailleurs are not all created equally. Had I a decent bike these things may not have frustrated me so much. I purchased a 21 speed bike about 12 years ago and rode it just a few times. The twist shifter was garbage and I never was able to get it to work right. Back then I had no interest in upgrading anything on a bigbox store bike. So it became garage furniture.

I've suffered from RA since I was 18 so I mostly avoid exertion. Like if I go for a moderate mountain hike it takes me about a week to recover. Hence the interest in an ebike. I can hopefully enjoy the outdoors more with less exertion. And BONUS I love to build stuff.

Thanks for the tip on the brake. Clearly you have a lot of experience because you knew this was an issue I'm having! With my brakes being hydraulic I am unable to use any sort of integrated switch. So unfortunately for now I'm going to use a magnetic switch mechanism attached via 3M tape to the outside of my brake handles. It will look like **** but it works. I have a few other ideas and of course this bike will constantly evolve over time. Eventually I will have an aesthetic and integral solution. I know some manufacturers have hydraulic cylinders with switches integrated.

After this road bike is complete I'm going to build a minibike with this:

20191020_201431.jpg


My plan for this one is a dirt bike. 20" wheels with front and rear 1200W hub motors, two lipo's etc. I want something for dirt trails that allows my feet full contact with the ground.

And there may be a 3rd bike after that, dual sport full custom frame with ludicrous power.

The gats are still in the skunkworks section of the garage.
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Re: Motor-Assisted Bicycle Adventures. anyone?

Postby Rockridge » August 3rd 2020, 12:55am

Old Clinton
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Re: Motor-Assisted Bicycle Adventures. anyone?

Postby Rockridge » August 3rd 2020, 12:56am

Saw a whizzer dear hanging in an antique shop today...
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Re: Motor-Assisted Bicycle Adventures. anyone?

Postby augidog [OP] » August 3rd 2020, 1:42am

I overlooked you had hydraulic brakes, but I noticed you hadn't mentioned a brake light.
you're talking about this or similar? which would have been my recommendation.
I'm curious to see what you come up with.
s-l1600 (1).jpg

97cargocrawler wrote:And there may be a 3rd bike after that
trust me, there WILL be more bikes, even if for someone else. why would I say that?

bottom-bracket drive, that's why
IMG_20200802_174425.jpg
(whoa, still crusty from the salt flats)
this old style Bafang BBS02 (tweaked to 48V 18A via flash software) was designed to fit a 33-35mm bottom bracket, but I used a couple adapters to (just barely) fit it to my American BB. the modified front derailleur is only a chain-guide. there are a slew of mid-drives available now, some of them are real beasts. the obvious appeal is multiple gears at the rear cassette & derailleur.

luna_cyclone_mount_4_of_6__35502.1551325001.1280.1280__58198.1552983155 - Edited.png
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Re: Motor-Assisted Bicycle Adventures. anyone?

Postby augidog [OP] » August 3rd 2020, 2:26am

Rockridge wrote:Old Clinton
that's one for the ages...and would do quite nicely on an old-school trike axle, go-cart style. love that tank!
Rockridge wrote:Saw a whizzer dear? hanging in an antique shop today...
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Re: Motor-Assisted Bicycle Adventures. anyone?

Postby tonydobbstonydobbs is online! » August 3rd 2020, 2:29am

Holy sh*t Cargo, that's an insane build! That might be my favorite DIY build! I had looked at those Dolomites for my ebike build but I'm still holding out for a nice full suspension frame. The roads here are crap, and having full suspension makes them so much more pleasant.
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Re: Motor-Assisted Bicycle Adventures. anyone?

Postby 97cargocrawler » August 3rd 2020, 5:03am

augidog wrote:I overlooked you had hydraulic brakes, but I noticed you hadn't mentioned a brake light.
you're talking about this or similar?


EXACTLY! Except I need two stacked on each side. One for the controller (might lose that one later) and one for the 12V brake light (in the pix). I made a super neeto circuit to take the 5v brake data signal from the controller to activate a 5v relay to give my 12V brake circuit power...worked great but then the damn controller no longer got the signal to disengage the motors. So I decided to leave the controller brake signals alone and just hard-wire 12V to one of those magnetic switches and keep them as separate electrical systems, only with the mechanical brake lever common to both. If I wanted to pull the controllers back out of the bag I could prolly make something more elegant.

tonydobbs wrote:Holy sh*t Cargo, that's an insane build! That might be my favorite DIY build! I had looked at those Dolomites for my ebike build but I'm still holding out for a nice full suspension frame. The roads here are crap, and having full suspension makes them so much more pleasant.


Thanks! Yeah I would have chosen a completely different frame if I had known the build was going to become something weighing a few hundred pounds! At least the seat has springs :oops:

I put the mirrors on the handlebars tonight.
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Re: Motor-Assisted Bicycle Adventures. anyone?

Postby tonydobbstonydobbs is online! » August 3rd 2020, 5:15am

97cargocrawler wrote:Thanks! Yeah I would have chosen a completely different frame if I had known the build was going to become something weighing a few hundred pounds! At least the seat has springs :oops:

I put the mirrors on the handlebars tonight.


Haha, it's an impressive build regardless. Can't wait to see the finished product!
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Re: Motor-Assisted Bicycle Adventures. anyone?

Postby augidog [OP] » August 3rd 2020, 5:29am

I want to quickly say...you're mechanically adept, plus you designed & built it yourself...we're pretty sure you know enough to let off the throttle when braking.

my opinion: losing the brake cutout and hardwiring the switches into the 12V harness was the right move.

I'm not sure I followed one point, so I'll ask just in case you're caught up in some overthinking. both light-switches are wired together parallel, correct? they share a single power-in (I tap into the headlight power) and a single power line back to the light?
Last edited by augidog on August 3rd 2020, 5:49am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Motor-Assisted Bicycle Adventures. anyone?

Postby 97cargocrawler » August 3rd 2020, 5:43am

augidog wrote:I want to quickly say...you're mechanically adept, plus you designed & built it yourself...we're pretty sure you know enough to let off the throttle when braking.

my opinion: lose the brake cutout. hardwire the switches into the 12V harness. I know that's where your thinking is taking you, I'm just confirming it's a sound strategy.


Yeh, my only concern was if the throttle somehow got stuck! So I thought maybe I would put my life in the hands of another $20 Chinese part :lol: I do have a Master power switch within reach that cuts the battery out.
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Re: Motor-Assisted Bicycle Adventures. anyone?

Postby augidog [OP] » August 3rd 2020, 6:01am

a well-placed master switch is a must. I use an audio breaker directly off the battery, the "test" push-button providing easy instant off for everything at once. plus the drive and lights each have their own switches on the bars.
IMG_20200802_215217.jpg
this 150 was a last minute replacement for a busted 20.
we never worried about it, the "ping battery" bms cuts out at a smidge over 20 anyway.
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https://www.astrosafari.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=142268
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Re: Motor-Assisted Bicycle Adventures. anyone?

Postby augidog [OP] » August 3rd 2020, 7:52am

zap.JPG
zap.JPG (40.55 KiB) Viewed 44 times
The ZAP (Zero Air Pollution, San Luis Obispo CA) "ElectriCruizer" is a 26" 6-speed, with a simple 12V 300W on/off friction drive. Made through the 1990's, an award-winning design, and a surprise at 12mph. when i landed in Coos Bay by accident, i ran across this one and bought it. I had a studio apt on the 8th floor of the "Tioga" and my large bike with a gas engine on the elevator was out of the question.

$(KGrHqJ,!kwE9UziU4CQBPffsp!17w~~60_58.jpg
i bought more ZAP parts off ebay. the custom integrated "night rider" lights (and obnoxious siren) were for the 1st ever electric Police bikes.

IMG-20121011-00062.jpg
after some research, i ordered motors & built my own (my first scratch e-drive) 24V 600W PWM system with a 1-way sprag roller. yes, those are radiator fan motors, both the (Emco USA) originals and the (made in Mexico) new ones.

i upgraded the ElectriCruizer with 2 CTC 12V 20Ah LiFePO4's in series, tires & lights from my gas bike in storage, baskets, bars. 15mph, about 20 miles per charge, and the thing could darn near climb a tree with the small roller.

IMG-20130417-00161.jpg
looking west at The Tioga Hotel, Coos Bay, the tallest building on the OR coastal highway.
it was a 10 mile ride back home from here, south around the bay then north up rt 101.

it served me well for over two years, but i set it aside when i moved and revived my main bike.

00j0j_cT1A6ubrWPy_600x450.jpg
00j0j_cT1A6ubrWPy_600x450.jpg (73.41 KiB) Viewed 43 times
i had an extra gas drive & other parts, so it spent one summer looking like this. a big boy's muscle bike.
40cc tanaka, Whizzer front end, Suntour 1982 drum brake front wheel, EV Warrior headlight, Honda Hobbit taillight, vintage Schwinn stick-shifter. it was pretty fun for showing off, but not a comfortable ride, and too fast for its own good.

i still have all of it, in a pile. when i take the mid-drive electric off the green land speed racer, it's going on the cruizer for my pit bike.
Scanned original Chevrolet-GMC Dealer "Product Information Guides."
Detailed Options w/RPO's. Learn all about your Astro/Safari's first build.
https://www.astrosafari.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=142268
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