Ceramic pad reviews; Wagner / Bosch / AC Delco

Re: Ceramic pad reviews; Wagner / Bosch / AC Delco

Postby Mmusicman » January 5th 2019, 2:16am

Corsemoto wrote:There's no way a Gen2 will have comparable brakes to a Gen3

Why not? Unless I'm missing something.. isn't the only difference that the rears are different? Isn't it also true that the rears only do a smaller percentage of the braking.. controlled by a proportioning valving system? (something like 60:40 ratio or maybe even 70:30 under hard braking) If you can lock up your brakes (regardless of model).. then I'd think there probably isn't much more that they can do.
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Re: Ceramic pad reviews; Wagner / Bosch / AC Delco

Postby Corsemoto » January 5th 2019, 2:36am

Why not?

Gen3 has larger two-piston calipers, larger pads with more surface area plus rear discs which equals better pedal feel, greater stopping power, more resistant to overheating/fade plus longer life. There's a reason GM went to the effort to upgrade the braking system that also necessitated a change to 16" wheels.

If you haven't driven both, especially heavily loaded or towing a trailer then you probably don't know what you're missing.
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Re: Ceramic pad reviews; Wagner / Bosch / AC Delco

Postby AstroWill » January 5th 2019, 4:25am

Corsemoto wrote:Why not?

Gen3 has larger two-piston calipers, larger pads with more surface area plus rear discs which equals better pedal feel, greater stopping power, more resistant to overheating/fade plus longer life. There's a reason GM went to the effort to upgrade the braking system that also necessitated a change to 16" wheels.

If you haven't driven both, especially heavily loaded or towing a trailer then you probably don't know what you're missing.


Shhhh! Please refrain from disseminating that highly classified information ;)

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Re: Ceramic pad reviews; Wagner / Bosch / AC Delco

Postby markmitch » January 5th 2019, 5:42am

so basically the 1st gen brakes are kinda like the flintstones brakes is what your trying to say?
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Re: Ceramic pad reviews; Wagner / Bosch / AC Delco

Postby Meterpig » January 5th 2019, 6:55am

A properly adjusted and maintained gen1/2 system might (heavy on the might) be able to keep up with a gen 3 system. Of course, one could also throw the larger calipers on the gen 2 and that helps to some degree. My van has Akebono pads and brake juice from who knows when. Even 3 years in, it can stop so quick....people behind me are quite surprised. That's with minimal maintenance.

Besides some folks on this site...most people aren't maintaining their gen 2 system all that well....
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Re: Ceramic pad reviews; Wagner / Bosch / AC Delco

Postby Corsemoto » January 5th 2019, 8:48am

AstroWill wrote:Shhhh! Please refrain from disseminating that highly classified information ;)

Gen3s suck and nobody should buy them, instead they should send me all relevant links to to any great deals! Esp if it's for a great condition, low priced white/RWD/cargo doors/passenger van with impeccable maintenance records :)


Sorry Will, AstroLeaks already leaked all that info. :D I know what you mean, been on the lookout for another nice Gen3 AWD (because they suck so bad!) too.

markmitch wrote:so basically the 1st gen brakes are kinda like the flintstones brakes is what your trying to say?


Nope, just saying from a lot of miles and experience with Gen2 & Gen3 that the braking system is superior on the Gen3 but dragging your feet probably wouldn't hurt. :lol:

Meterpig wrote:A properly adjusted and maintained gen1/2 system might (heavy on the might) be able to keep up with a gen 3 system. Of course, one could also throw the larger calipers on the gen 2 and that helps to some degree. My van has Akebono pads and brake juice from who knows when. Even 3 years in, it can stop so quick....people behind me are quite surprised. That's with minimal maintenance.

Besides some folks on this site...most people aren't maintaining their gen 2 system all that well....


Still nope but if your name was CowboyDan, then maybe. :poke:
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Re: Ceramic pad reviews; Wagner / Bosch / AC Delco

Postby Sailing_Faith [OP] » June 18th 2019, 4:26am

Just an update,

AC Delco ceramic pads are pretty short lived. We installed them on both my van and a friends van at the same time... his are worn already.
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Re: Ceramic pad reviews; Wagner / Bosch / AC Delco

Postby Sailing_Faith [OP] » July 10th 2019, 1:34am

Sailing_Faith wrote:Just an update,

AC Delco ceramic pads are pretty short lived. We installed them on both my van and a friends van at the same time... his are worn already.


So.... now mine are squeeking also... two pairs of AC Delco pads both failed on two 1997 vans between 5k and 7.5k.....

Here they are:
832A53AF-9637-4850-8AE2-AC3CA894FD11.jpeg
They don’t look too bad...


72F35B54-E606-463E-8311-8FC68343D4F6.jpeg
Minimal wear... all 4 pretty even.


34DF2494-D094-4613-968F-6B40AD808E66.jpeg
They would have lasted a lot longer, but the wear indicators were set so close!


So, they did no so much as die an early death, as the wear indicators were set too far into the pad life.... I estimate they were not even at 50% wear.... :whack: :whack: :dunce:


So, the test results for ACDelco ceramic pads are; slightly more dust then the Wagner ThermoQuiet, with about the same stopping power.


My friend’s van is now running Napa Premium Semi-metalic pads.... he says he has not noticed any real difference in breaking..... interesting to me as I would have expected shorter stopping distance with the semi-metallic pads... :confused:
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Re: Ceramic pad reviews; Wagner / Bosch / AC Delco

Postby Sailing_Faith [OP] » July 10th 2019, 1:37am

Leeann_93 wrote:Gen 3 vans came with ceramic pads.

I have NAPA Adaptive One pads and Ultra Premium rotors on my Jeep and really like them. Stopping distance is very good, even when towing, and they're lower dusting.

I have NAPA Premium pads on my Astro (the rotors were still good); when next I need to replace them, I'll get Adaptive One pads and NAPA Ultra Premium rotors just like the Jeep.

https://www.napabrakes.com/products/bra ... aptive-one


According to my local Napa (and confirmed online) they do not make the ‘Adaptive One’ series pads for our vans or at least not for gen2.....
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Re: Ceramic pad reviews; Wagner / Bosch / AC Delco

Postby Leeann_93 » July 10th 2019, 3:55am

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Re: Ceramic pad reviews; Wagner / Bosch / AC Delco

Postby Sailing_Faith [OP] » July 10th 2019, 7:23am



Cool, I guess they just skipped the 2 Gen vans then. :confused:
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Re: Ceramic pad reviews; Wagner / Bosch / AC Delco

Postby WinnieVan » July 10th 2019, 6:34pm

2002 is Gen-II. The second link Leeann posted is pads for your van!

ADO AD7259B for the pads and UP 880442 for the rotors! Whomever you were talking to doesn't know what they're talking about. I'm a bit surprised since the folks at NAPA usually know their stuff a bit better than other LAPS.
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Re: Ceramic pad reviews; Wagner / Bosch / AC Delco

Postby Corsemoto » July 10th 2019, 11:17pm

Sailing_Faith wrote:My friend’s van is now running Napa Premium Semi-metalic pads.... he says he has not noticed any real difference in breaking..... interesting to me as I would have expected shorter stopping distance with the semi-metallic pads... :confused:


Swapping new pads of a different compound onto used rotors isn't always the best indicator of new pad performance since there is a layer of old pad material on the rotors. It also depends on the pad compound and friction rating. If replacing pads with a different compound on used rotors, I'll clean the rotors with a flex-hone.
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Re: Ceramic pad reviews; Wagner / Bosch / AC Delco

Postby keith92ext » July 11th 2019, 12:29am

ive had good luck with wagner thermoquiets and duralast golds....the duralast are on my plow truck and are decent..not much fade.
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Re: Ceramic pad reviews; Wagner / Bosch / AC Delco

Postby Sailing_Faith [OP] » September 3rd 2020, 9:44pm

Ac Delco ceramic pads.... after resetting the wear indicators (they were only at 50% wear) I ran mine for a total of 15,640 miles. I noticed they were loosing stopping ability so I switched them out.

At first glance, they were thin but worn evenly ... (kind of a bad angle there, they look paper thin but they are not that bad...)

E57D9463-14D4-4B15-8501-54A1D8B9D483.jpeg
Old and new (new Wagner QS)...


But then I noticed;

20A357F8-11D3-4654-A571-3FDAD8D37345.jpeg
Significant patch of metallic substrate seems to build up in the pads...


Sanding disc on the rotors to deglaze and clean the Surface... And my next test will be the Wagner QS (Quick stop, ZD52 ceramic)... I have previously tried the Wagner Thermo Quiets, I’ll update this when I see how these do.

51B9C375-996C-42B8-BA33-35ABE87FDC82.jpeg


0362C051-FEB8-4006-A7CD-5C12F25FF035.jpeg
Wagner QS... (I notice the patches of the composite material are larger)...


And another brake fluid flush...

8AFF66A1-D227-4561-B54C-D7A3A48FC7ED.jpeg
Nice and clean...
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Re: Ceramic pad reviews; Wagner / Bosch / AC Delco

Postby Sailing_Faith [OP] » September 6th 2020, 6:30pm

WinnieVan wrote:2002 is Gen-II. The second link Leeann posted is pads for your van!

ADO AD7259B for the pads and UP 880442 for the rotors! Whomever you were talking to doesn't know what they're talking about. I'm a bit surprised since the folks at NAPA usually know their stuff a bit better than other LAPS.


I am a bit confused, the picture for the ADO7259B looks nothing like our pads (maybe just a stock photo?)...

69EC16DA-22F7-4359-8537-29F27B9A0446.png
ADO 7259B


I am looking forward to adding them to my test thread next.... :rockon:
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Re: Ceramic pad reviews; Wagner / Bosch / AC Delco

Postby WakkoWarner » November 29th 2020, 6:05pm

I have tried several different pads on my mom's Astro. All of them from Autozone just plain suck, and I was definitely not impressed with the Wagner ThermoQuiets (junk). So, I will be replacing the Duralast ceramics with Performance Friction carbon metallics. I put these pads back onto my Chevelle recently, as they just plain work. Good stopping power, low dust, pretty quiet. They used to carry them at Autozone (lifetime warranty), but then they switched to only carrying their brand in house (big mistake).

On a side note, my mom's Astro uses the same exact pads that my 1971 Chevelle does. The Performance Friction part number is 0052.20.

https://www.amazon.com/Performance-Fric ... B000EJBSZI
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Re: Ceramic pad reviews; Wagner / Bosch / AC Delco

Postby markmitch » November 29th 2020, 6:23pm

Lots of great info Thanks guys!
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