[dchan51360]

Timing advance and CMP retard are two totally different things.

The computer adjust the timing to where it is programmed to (if it can). When you advance or retard the system using the distributor mechanically, you will reach a point that either too far advanced or too far retard, for the engine to run.

IIRC the engine at about 1k RPM /cold idle should be sitting right around 20degree before tdc. And when I first tried to do this also not knowing that the computer would try to compensate, I turned my distributor, and it stayed right at 20degrees I kept going until it started to run real rough but still was clear it was trying to stay at 20degrees TDC. That's when I realized what was going on.

Watch the videos again. Set the harmonic dampener so that the timing mark is right at TDC. Then adjust the distributor gear so that the rotor is pointed where it is supposed to be.

If you have the "keyed distributor" this should be all you can do. If you have a distributor that you can turn and adjust, you need to load the live data stream and adjust the CMP Retard to read 0 +-2

If you have the keyed distributor, I'm going to guess that you should go back one tooth so the computer can hold the timing at idle to 20 degrees. Just to verify I just started up my van and read the timing.. it's sitting right at 19-20degrees and climbs to about 35 if I rev to 2500rpm.

 

[Mauring]

That link says- Possible Causes:

Faulty Ignition Control Module

Ignition Control Module harness is open or shorted

Ignition Control Module circuit poor electrical connection

You hit 1 of 3 so far, how about these other 2?

I don't know how to fix or check for an open or shorted Ignition control harness. How do I do that? I would like to do all 3 of 3.

The last one "Ignition Control Module circuit poor electrical connection" is something that I can do.

Quite the opposite... stop throwing parts at it and find data. AK is right on the money, if it was fine before then ya did something wrong or got bad parts.

Do you think I should buy a new Ignition Control Module?

Quite the opposite... stop throwing parts at it and find data.

I agree. That is a good saying.

After the Astro wouldn't start after I changed the plugs and wires, I hired a mobile mechanic who pulled out his ($5,000?) SnapOn scanner the size of a laptop and diagnosed that my Ignition Control Module was dead. At that time I also replaced the Ignition Coil.

I figured that both parts are 20+ years old and I didn't want my van to not start when I am camping 30 miles down a dirt road.

and find data.

I am trying to find data. That is why I am asking for help on AstroSafari.com. I didn't have a father or any friends who knew how to work on cars. I still don't.

This last month I have spent hundreds of dollars on diagnostic tools that I have never had before and only know how to use from Googling.

The "stop throwing parts at it and find data" saying is very common in this forum and in every car related forum.

Personally I find the saying hurtful every time that I read it.

I am trying my best to diagnose, fix and maintain my Astro.

I may ask stupid questions but I really don't know how to do much of the things mentioned in this forum.

I am trying hard to learn.

 

[Mauring]

Your LAPS can test that ICM for you, for free. It would rule it out.

Does the LAPS need it to be on the van? My Astro misfires so badly that I am afraid to drive it anywhere in case it blows a head gasket or something.

Also, Dashcommand will read the CMP if you download the GM enhanced PIDS for $9.99.
All you need is an elm 327 and then DL the Dashcommand program onto your Android, Apple or Windows device.

Thanks! I will buy it.

 

[Mauring]

If you have the keyed distributor, I'm going to guess that you should go back one tooth so the computer can hold the timing at idle to 20 degrees. Just to verify I just started up my van and read the timing.. it's sitting right at 19-20degrees and climbs to about 35 if I rev to 2500rpm.

Thanks for all of the advice in your post. I like the quoted part, it is good to know that your Astro runs good at 20.

 

[WimpTech]

Relax, you see us all here trying to help, right?

The "stop throwing parts at it and find data" saying is very common in this forum and in every car related forum.... because its true. Its expensive and rarely nets results. Thats why everyone says it. Now, let's start by answering questions and finding that data. Taking things off the table is narrowing it down, so lets do that.

1) Did you clear codes to see which ones come back?
2) Did you use an AC Delco module or something else?
3) When you are setting TDC, are you aligning both the upper and lower mark on the main pully, or just one?

4) When you set in the distributor, set the rotor just barely behind #1 firing position so that when it drops all the way in, it will align.
5) Are you engaging the oil pump rod when you set it in? That means it sits completely flush to the engine block.
6) Make sure you didn't knock loose the knock sensor wire.
7) When you get back to it all, check the connections on each side of the module for anything obvious, like dull metal, garbage, oxidation, burned, loose, etc.

Do the research, learn and you will be fine, not to fret. Most of us aren't mechanics either, we learn by doing and so will you.

 

[dramey]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tech2-diag...ith-candi-module-USA-SELLER/112986185348?hash=item1a4e805e84:g:y~EAAOSwai5a6gJZ

This is the person I bought my Tech 2 from. this is the best scanner you can use on your van. I don't see them on e-bay for $200 any more.

 

[Mauring]

Relax, you see us all here trying to help, right?

I understand. I am often oversensitive, situations that "normal" people can handle with ease will make me tearful. :crying:

1) Did you clear codes to see which ones come back?

I haven't cleared the P1351 and P0300 codes yet. Should I do that now?

2) Did you use an AC Delco module or something else?

I believe that I have read in this forum to only use ACDelco or Delphi ignition parts in Astros. I just looked at the box and mine is a Delphi.

3) When you are setting TDC, are you aligning both the upper and lower mark on the main pully, or just one?

I have been using EricTheCarGuy's method:

4) When you set in the distributor, set the rotor just barely behind #1 firing position so that when it drops all the way in, it will align.

Yes, I do that

5) Are you engaging the oil pump rod when you set it in? That means it sits completely flush to the engine block.

:crying:

Yes, I do that. My head is big enough that I can get one eye to see the oil pump rod. Still not much fun! The distributor sits flush.

6) Make sure you didn't knock loose the knock sensor wire.

I never knew what that was. I Googled it to see where it is located and what it does. I will take a look at mine today.

 

[dchan51360]

Clear the codes. Even codes that "self clear" often take several complete drive cycles to clear.

 

[1lowcab]

Does the LAPS need it to be on the van?

No, you can take just the module in.

 

[WimpTech]

Relax, you see us all here trying to help, right?

I understand. I am often oversensitive, situations that "normal" people can handle with ease will make me tearful. :crying:

Not many people here are "normal"

1) Did you clear codes to see which ones come back?

I haven't cleared the P1351 and P0300 codes yet. Should I do that now? DEFINITELY! Might be chasing old codes.

2) Did you use an AC Delco module or something else?

I believe that I have read in this forum to only use ACDelco or Delphi ignition parts in Astros. I just looked at the box and mine is a Delphi.
PERFECT!

3) When you are setting TDC, are you aligning both the upper and lower mark on the main pully, or just one?

I have been using EricTheCarGuy's method:

That's like taking a bus to the Bahamas... stick with the one I linked and you can't go wrong.

4) When you set in the distributor, set the rotor just barely behind #1 firing position so that when it drops all the way in, it will align.

Yes, I do that
PERFECT!

5) Are you engaging the oil pump rod when you set it in? That means it sits completely flush to the engine block.

:crying:

Yes, I do that. My head is big enough that I can get one eye to see the oil pump rod. Still not much fun! The distributor sits flush.
PERFECT!

6) Make sure you didn't knock loose the knock sensor wire.

I never knew what that was. I Googled it to see where it is located and what it does. I will take a look at mine today.

Doing good, just clear codes and address the timing marks thing so you know you're at TDC#1 and start from there.

 

[AstroWill]

Not many people here are "normal"

What is normal? How do you define normal?

 

[1lowcab]

 

[konybravo]

IIRC the engine at about 1k RPM /cold idle should be sitting right around 20degree before tdc. And when I first tried to do this also not knowing that the computer would try to compensate, I turned my distributor, and it stayed right at 20degrees I kept going until it started to run real rough but still was clear it was trying to stay at 20degrees TDC. That's when I realized what was going on.

Just a clarification: 20 degrees before TDS is displayed "-20" on the scanner. I used to be confused, when initialy saw this reading, thinking, it is retarded 20degrees.

 

[dchan51360]

IIRC the engine at about 1k RPM /cold idle should be sitting right around 20degree before tdc. And when I first tried to do this also not knowing that the computer would try to compensate, I turned my distributor, and it stayed right at 20degrees I kept going until it started to run real rough but still was clear it was trying to stay at 20degrees TDC. That's when I realized what was going on.

Just a clarification: 20 degrees before TDS is displayed "-20" on the scanner. I used to be confused, when initialy saw this reading, thinking, it is retarded 20degrees.

This depends on the scanner. the Scangauge shows it as 20. My scanxl also shows 20. My dad's cheaper scanner shows -20. Check the documentation.

 

[konybravo]

IIRC the engine at about 1k RPM /cold idle should be sitting right around 20degree before tdc. And when I first tried to do this also not knowing that the computer would try to compensate, I turned my distributor, and it stayed right at 20degrees I kept going until it started to run real rough but still was clear it was trying to stay at 20degrees TDC. That's when I realized what was going on.

Just a clarification: 20 degrees before TDS is displayed "-20" on the scanner. I used to be confused, when initialy saw this reading, thinking, it is retarded 20degrees.

This depends on the scanner. the Scangauge shows it as 20. My scanxl also shows 20. My dad's cheaper scanner shows -20. Check the documentation.

Oh, I see. That's a good thing to know.